Y-BlocksForever Forum / Y-BlocksForever! Forums 2006 / Aftermarket Cylinder Heads

Request for head count for aluminum cylinder head purchases

Ted — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 07:07:00 GMT

Assuming the aluminum heads for a Y can become available from John Mummert very early in 2009, it’s being asked just how many individuals would commit to purchasing a pair from the first production run for their Y-Block powered vehicle? While the heads will have an improved air flow over the stock heads, they are still essentially being designed to be a direct bolt on with no special parts or modifications being required to supplement their installation. New bolts are highly recommened though in lieu of using the stock items.

With the economy taking a downturn, there is still quite a bit of investment yet to be taken to get these heads completed and to market and the question is being asked “just how many heads can be sold initially?”. A ballpark figure for a completed pair of heads ready to install is projected to be $2000-$2100. Exact pricing is still being worked on though and will depend upon to some degree how quickly the initial investment can be recaptured. Although John has received a large number of calls inquiring about the heads, there is not a solid feel for exactly how many heads can be sold in the initial sales push. Another consideration in this are the casting foundaries themselves which are going out of business at an alarming rate. Although the casting foundary that’s currently involved with the Y heads is still in business, long term propects with it are not promising which means potentially getting a different foundary up to speed and a delay on future production runs.

So if you think you’d be a serious purchaser of a pair of first run heads, simply post here so a preliminary head count can be taken. Here’s the link to the DESIGN FEATURES. I’ll start this off by saying “put me on the list for a pair”.

Latest update?

yehaabill — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:42:17 GMT

Y-Guys What's the latest news on the heads? Frank-Ted-Jim????

Bill

Can someone Post a pic of these heads

2DRHRDTP57 — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:50:31 GMT

Anyone got a picture of these heads, the scan / pic in an earlier thread seems to have died???:D

YBM Alum Head photo's

yehaabill — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:15:44 GMT

Y-Guys Just got my new YBM and WOW!!!! They have arrived(Heads)

They look great but, the clearance around the plugs looks the same.

Will this be enlarged to give the plug socket more room or is this the

pre-production set? Can't wait to see flow results and dyno run....

Bill

Anticipated power gains with the new aluminum heads?

Ted — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:32:06 GMT

[quote][b]tinymikey (1/4/2009)[/b][hr]Any idea what these new castings might be worth in power gains, say single four barrel versus a 6-71 blown drag engine? :smooooth:[/quote]

This is a new topic so I've taken this opportunity to make a new post with it.

John hasn't thrown any numbers or expectations out there yet. Testing will determine this but with improved out of the box flow numbers over the stock heads then an increase in performance is also to be expected. But raw air flow numbers are never the whole story as improved valve locations, combustion chamber design, and port configurations also play a large part in overall performance. With the combustion chamber cc’s being downsized to compensate for the inefficiency of aluminum in regards to heat retention, then at least the gains from the other improvements will not be offset or taken away by the use of aluminum. It will also make sense that for the anticipated increase in air flow for the new heads to be fully taken advantage of, the camshaft, intake manifold, ignition, and exhaust all must be upgraded to match. Just putting the new aluminum heads on a dead stock engine may or may not see any significant gains in performance but testing will help to quantify this.

Overall look of the head

Ted — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:20:17 GMT

Appears to be two trains of thought here. One where the head is cast similar to the originals with casting lines and roughness. The other where the heads are actually smooth on the exterior finish and potentially can be emblazoned with the manufacturers logo on the ends. Smooth works okay for myself. What’s the general concensus here?

Combustion chamber cc variability

Ted — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 06:12:58 GMT

[quote][b]DANIEL TINDER (12/17/2008)[/b][hr]Ted,

Just a point of curiosity:

Are you familiar with the type of tooling/procedures used by FoMoCo factory/foundry in the 50s? I have to wonder why there was so much variation in my ECZ-G chamber volumes (3 CCs +) between cylinders on the same head. Was the final machining done in Cleveland, or were they delivered to Dearborn as raw castings? Unless done freehand, it is hard to imagine that even 50s era automated equipment could be that imprecise?[/quote]

Daniel. This answers your question that was under the heading “YBM alum head photo’s”. It’s a new topic so I’ve taken the liberty in starting a new thread with it.

A 3cc variation is still normal even in the newer oem castings. Combustion chamber size control or variation by the oem’s hasn’t changed much in the last fifty years. A case in point is the combustion chamber volumes varied so much on the FE’s when they were first introduced in 1957 that it forced all FE heads for the first half year of 1958 car production to have the combustion chambers machined until the casting techniques became stable enough to permit the combustion chambers to be used as cast. I just recently did a set of new 502 BBC (scrub) aluminum heads and there was a 3½ cc variation from end to end on one of the heads and a significant difference from head to head. Needless the say, the customer was not happy but the heads were easily fixed with a little time and perserverence. Some (not all) of the aftermarket heads are surprisingly close so the control is there if need be but many of the oem heads still exhibit a combustion chamber cc variability that would appear to be excessive.

In summary, the same core shifting that occurs with the cylinder walls of a block is also present when casting cylinder heads. Where this core shift is in regards to the reference points in starting the machine work on blank head castings ultimately plays a large part in what the final combustion chamber cc’s are going to be. On a performance build, I will cc each chamber of both heads being used and then correct as deemed necessary so all chambers are sized the same. More often than not, the combustion chambers will be progressively larger in cc’s from one end towards the other. In these cases the calculations are performed so that the heads are angle milled end to end so that one end is milled heavier than the other which in turn allows the combustion chamber cc’s to be more equalized over the length of the head.

Instruction sheet for new head installation

Ted — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:12:09 GMT

Definitely needs an instruction sheet. How many times have you purchased something only to question what the manufacturer wanted because no literature was included? Some items to include on an instruction sheet would include:

Head gasket recommendation.

Torque specs and tightening sequence.

Spark plug recommendation with the heat range.

Pushrod length if different than stock.

Head bolt recommendation with part numbers.

Any warnings – ie. “DO NOT USE ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT HEAD BOLTS!!!”, “USE ANTI-SEIZE ON SPARK PLUG THREADS BEFORE INSTALLING”, etc.

Feel free to make corrections or additions. This is just a start.

YBM ad

yehaabill — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:41:57 GMT

Y-Guys Mummert's ad says he may have "THEM" in August.

Will there be any at Columbus to "Dream" over? Any other

specifications and PRICE....( I know, if you have to ask

you can't afford them!) See Ya'll soon...Bill

Additional information regarding aluminum cylinder head production

Ted — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 04:43:31 GMT

Here’s some of the information that’s been passed on to me regarding the aluminum cylinder heads for the Y. I’m keeping this post separate from the one asking “Who’s serious about purchasing a pair of aluminum cylinder heads?” to keep that particular post from being a discussion about the heads themselves and easier to get a head count of potential head purchasers. New posts or adding to this one regarding specific questions are always welcome.

The aluminum heads are still being planned as a direct bolt on for the run of the mill Y engines. Standard design features will include the factory bolt and gasket patterns for intake manifolds, exhausts, and rocker arm setups while having improved out of the box air flow over the stock heads. The valve covers will still sit in the stock locations which seems to be a valid concern. The heads will include stainless steel valves, retainers, springs, and locks and are essentially being planned as a simple bolt on without the need for special parts. The external texture and markings on the castings will be such that the heads can be painted to look like stock heads if so desired. These heads will use the newer style washered 14mm spark plugs which are commonfare at this point on most of the other aftermarket heads that are now available. The exact spark plug recommendations will be available by the time the heads are ready to hit the market.

Dyno testing is at the top of the list before the heads are released but just as soon as this testing validates that the heads are indeed ready to go, the heads will go into production and start being sold. That means not much fanfare or publicity before the first production run is sold out. Which brings up the original question in the other post, “How many people interested in first run heads” which will allow for an estimate for the intial number of foundary castings to be determined. Keep in mind that with the aluminum foundaries going out of business at an apalling rate, that second run may take awhile depending upon which U.S. foundaries are still around after the smoke clears and how long it takes for one of these to come back up to speed making quality castings. On my end, rebuildable large valve head cores are getting hard to come by so the production of these heads will definitely alleviate this shortage and with the heads exhibitting better than stock air flow characteristics, then all the better.

Click here to return to “Request for Head Count Posting”.

Aluminum or iron for the head material?

Ted — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:39:24 GMT

There are options in head materials. Aluminum is lighter but has more heat going straight to the water jacket and subsequently not being turned into energy (horsepower). But improved air flow as well as a compression increase can compensate for this. On the other hand, iron heads would be good too especially if the flow numbers are increased and even if the combustion chambers stay at the stock 69cc ‘G’ size.

I’m assuming that the head manufacturer will have final say in the material being used but will be nice if the heads are designed around the material. I’d personally hate to see another fiasco like the Edelbrocks for the Fe where there’s a drop in performance using the aluminum head over the factory cast irons only because there was not an accompanying increase in air flow and compression ratio to go along with production of them in aluminum. Referring to out of the box and unported of course.

How about new Y-Block engine castings?

Crippled_Eagle — Sun, 25 May 2008 22:13:07 GMT

[b]After I finished High School, I took some College courses as well as some trade school courses. While I was learning to machine things automotive, I was fortunate to be taught to use a boring bar. One of the engines I practiced on was an old 292. I bored it out almost to 4 inches and was planning on seeing just how far I could go before I hit the water jacket. I was hoping to be able to enlarge the bore enough to put sleeves in it to give me a 4 inch bore and ultimately to give me a displacement of 352 cubic inches.
Now never having cast anything, a new block capable of being machined to a 4 inch bore might not be a possibility or the cost might be so high to make it that it would never be made. But, think of it, a new Y-Block casting with improved webbing, perhaps a main cap like the 427s had with cross bolt mains. Improved cooling, better rear main seal, improved oiling system and other improvements.
Ideas anyone, Am I crazy? :)
Marvin[/b]

Prerequisites in a replacement head design

Ted — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:22:24 GMT

Some thoughts on some of the standard design features to keep a replacement head marketable to the masses would be:

Must accept current Y-Block intake manifolds and gaskets.

Must accept current Y-Block exhaust manifolds, headers, gaskets.

Must accept current Y-Block valve covers and gaskets.

Must accept current Y-Block rocker arm assemblies.

If spark plug location is revised, must be able able to use with current exhaust systems.

14mm spark plugs. Lots of these available in the various heat ranges.

Available ready to run with valves, springs, retainers, etc.

If aluminum, then heli-coils in the rocker stand, intake, and exhaust bolt hole threads.

Open for discussion. If necessary, just start a new thread for the topic you have in mind or add to this thread any additional standard features.

½” Head bolt capability

Ted — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:35:57 GMT

Heads need to be able to use ½” head bolts. Stock factory heads can be drilled without hitting water so that ½” head bolts can be used. Likewise should be the same with any aftermarket replacement heads. One idea is for the head bolt holes to be ½” except for a shoulder at the top to accommodate a 7/16” head bolt. If using a ½” head bolt, then the shoulder is simply drilled out. This feature is already on a variety of the SBF aftermarket heads so the heads can be used on either 302’s or 351W’s.

Valve lengths

Ted — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:17:25 GMT

Longer that stock length valves would be nice. This allows some additional flexibility in port design and when using higher lift camshafts. Drawback is that the supports in the heads for the rocker stands will have to be higher to maintain proper rocker arm geometry. This then makes the valve cover rail higher and in turn and the valve cover sits higher. Is this a problem for those of you with a power brake booster?

Raising the rockers would also dictate longer pushrods. Instruction sheet could include a recommended length for a starting point but this is something that might be varied depending upon the brand of rocker, deck or head milling, etc

Feel free to add thoughts.

Thicker decks

Ted — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:36:49 GMT

Thicker decks for serious milling and potentially some additional rigidity for head gasket sealing.

Head installation accessories

Ted — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:13:45 GMT

Installing a new pair of heads will require at the very least a pair of head gaskets, an intake manifold gasket set, valve cover gaskets, and exhaust gaskets. Other items could include pushrods and head bolts. Thoughts are split between including the accessory kit with the heads or having it available as a separate item. Including the items with the heads does eliminate someone trying to use their 1955 vintage head bolts with the new heads but does add significantly to the initial cost of a pair of heads. Having the kit available separately gives some flexibility to the end user in being able to use some of their own parts or different brand preferences while also keeping the initial cost of a pair of heads less.

Feel free to add thoughts to this.