Y-BlocksForever Forum / Y-BlocksForever! Forums 2006 / Aftermarket Cylinder Heads / Latest update? / Latest Posts

RE: Latest update?

miker — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:00:42 GMT

Ted, I 'm not sure how many of the 'bird guy drive the car, but I'm one of them. I've been on the wait list for a a couple months now, and hopefully I'm in line for a set of the now available castings when John gets them out. I really appreciate all the work you've done, especially showing the bird headers, as that's tough info for the rest of us to come by. The heads are going on with new headers and a larger exhaust and probably a throttle body injection in place of the carb and the blower. The car will go on a chassis dyno during that, and hopefully I'll have some closed up numbers to offer. That will give me a printout of the torque, hp and fuel curves. I think we're also going to be able to set the ign. advance through the computer. Not as good without a baseline, but might tell you a little more that it will the rest of us.

RE: Latest update?

Ted — Fri, 18 Feb 2011 06:35:15 GMT

[quote][b]morgus (2/16/2011)[/b][hr]so here is what we have....the guys in the t-bird clubs don't want anything to do with 'not original' stuff.....that 'takes out' a bunch of sales.....the old guys with y-blocks don't seem to have $2000+ laying around for these heads either.......who does this leave??? rich guys with 55 fords? not too many of them around, i'll bet..... ......so who is left?? i can't see a whole bunch of drag racers popping out of the bushes...(am i wrong??) this was a great idea in 1995--maybe with the country in a kind of 'no money-out of work' thing going on now...this is hurting sales.....yes? no? somebody out there (john mummert?)...text me back and straighten me out on this......later ed[/quote]

From my perspective, the Thunderbird show crowd segment of the market is a relatively small percentage of those looking for Y-Block parts that will actually upgrade a Y engine. That is their prerogative and I’m fine with the reasoning behind it. On the flip side, there’s a much larger number of early Thunderbird owners who drive their cars and this group definitely wants to keep a Y under the hood if it will make some power numbers that are in line with a SBF or other engine swap. To this end, the aluminum heads have got some TBird engine swaps putting Y’s back under the hoods simply for the nostalgia of having the original engine back in the car. And for those who try to maintain some resemblance of originality, they are painting both the aluminum heads and aluminum intakes. And let’s not overlook the F100 crowd. That is the sleeper group for buying up Y parts as those pickups are out there in abundance and still priced where you can actually buy one. This is where I see many of the aluminum heads ultimately ending up. It’s the F100 show group that’s going so far as to chrome the heads just for that additional amount of ‘one up ya’ which makes aluminum heads a natural for that group.

Requests for the aluminum heads on my end as an engine builder is strong. Those requests are easily outweighing the production capability at this point in time so there’s obviously a waiting period for the heads right now. The aluminum heads are no different than those for other engines in that if they are available, there will be a market for them. There’s even an aluminum head available for the Ford 200 six now and that didn’t happen because there was no market for them. What I see on the Y aluminum heads is once the intial demand is filled for engines that are currently being built with these heads in mind, there will be head sales to those wanting the make sure they have a set on the shelf for a future project. It will be these heads that will be showing up for sale long after the heads are no longer being produced. This is exactly what’s been occurring with the highly touted Ardun heads for the flathead Ford V8.

The aluminum heads have definitely raised the performance bar to the next level. Although stout performance could be obtained on the oem heads with the addition of power adders, the horsepower potential with the normally aspirated engines with iron heads had pretty much peaked and leveled off. The aluminum heads have changed all that by leaps and bounds.

RE: Latest update?

Grizzly — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:05:26 GMT

Thanks Gary,

If John has done his work right with these heads, and I'm sure he has, they will sell themselves.

cheers Warren Adams

RE: Latest update?

speedpro56 — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 05:54:03 GMT

The aluminum heads worked great on my street tbird from a smooth takeoff from a traffic light to an amazing amount of power when passing another vehicle in a normal????? sort a way Ha! Ha! As I was saying earlier as John just put it there's more than enough buyers that's willing to put more real useable power in these cars with these aluminum heads with just a little more money as to trying to do the same thing Iron heads. If you want to paint these heads ford red they will look original to the classic tbird or classic car, and you will have to look very close to try and distinguish the difference because there THAT good. Way to go John!!!! and I'm waiting for my other set. So too answer your question Grizzly they worked excellent on the street with no problems..

RE: Latest update?

charliemccraney — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 21:42:14 GMT

[quote][b]morgus (2/16/2011)[/b][hr]who does this leave??? rich guys with 55 fords? not too many of them around, i'll bet...[/quote]

There are also some young single guys with no wives or kids to take all of the cash. ;)

The aluminum heads really are a no brainer if doing a performance build. You can easily have just as much in a set of iron heads for the same performance. For that reason, I agree that I see no reason that a T-bird guy wanting to maintain the stock configuration would shell out the dough. 2 g's makes no sense when he can rework his current heads to achieve his goal for much less.

These heads really are for the guy who's going to take it above stock performance levels and when you compare them to other low demand engines, they really aren't that expensive.

RE: Latest update?

MS 57 Blackbird — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 21:04:40 GMT

Seems to me that John's heads are priced reasonably when you consider what it has taken for him to get them in production. If I am remembering correctly a street port job on a good set of 113's by John cost around $1250 when I sent my heads to him a couple of years ago. If I needed another set of heads now I would definitely consider a set of the aluminum heads.

RE: Latest update?

John Mummert — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 20:54:13 GMT

Bill has it pretty close to correct. Honestly the demand has been about double what I expected for an initial run and we are getting calls on a regular basis from people not on the waiting list. Frankly, its a little overwhelming.

We will receive another 60 castings next Monday and they are spoken for.

Don't try to use logic to understand the economy. When faced with spending money on what they need or what they want, people will chose what they want ever time.

Don't forget, if you are employed during a recession, its just a buying opportunity. Its only if you are unemployed that it becomes a disaster.

Look at the stock market going up when the economy appears weak. Hard to explain.

RE: Latest update?

aussiebill — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:53:06 GMT

[quote][b]unibodyboy (2/16/2011)[/b][hr]In essence, aluminum heads for the Y block are a luxury good. Theoretically, as the economic cycle turns downward, the demand for luxury goods (aluminum heads in the case) is reduced more than the demand for other more "normal" goods. However, this is cyclical in nature, and the world keeps on spinning.

Although I would imagine John's heads aren't selling AS well as could have been expected, I would imagine that the individuals interested in the heads to begin with are still for the most part purchasing.

Additionally, although you haven't seen that much increase in demand for aftermarket Y blocks parts in your neck of the woods, you can see it all over the country. Increase in selling prices for core pieces as well as decorative items (see the edelbrock valve covers as of late) are incredible. The Y block is slowly becoming one of the hotter (no hp pun intended) motors for hot rods in front of our collective eyes.[/quote]

Hi Greg, I'd think the aluminum heads are the best performance item available since sliced bread and equal amounts of money could easily be spent chasing performance in other areas, carbs, ex, cams etc and really aren't just a luxury item, personally I think there is a strong demand for the heads and more a supply problem than anything that more haven't got on engines yet to voice the results. maybe I'm wrong but that's my view. :):)

RE: Latest update?

speedpro56 — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:50:30 GMT

I see the same thing Greg, these cars and trucks are so beautiful I just see them taking it as far as they can in beauty and power for the Y-blocks. Just look at what their doing to the over the pond cars ( thousands and thousands of dollars??? ) should we with a much much nicer looking cars and trucks ( y-block equipped ) do any less............. I see a lot of pride continueing to be put into these beauties at the car shows etc. I believe there's still a market for parts for these cars including after market parts for power, just check epay and see what parts are going for....... pretty scary!!!!

RE: Latest update?

Grizzly — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:38:07 GMT

I see it completely differently. Unless you are doing a standard rebuild the alloy heads make sense. If you were to go with cast iron heads. Firstly you need to buy a set of G or 113 heads unless you are luck enough to already have a set. If you are unlucky you could end up buying more than one set to get a good complete set.(cracks, corrosion etc) I don't know what you are paying for a rebuild but a mate of mine was quoted $1000 for a unleaded upgrade (Head work only). So for new valves, porting, seats, machining, considerably more.

Personally I've paid $1800 for porting and head work on a two cylinder two valves per cylinder motorcycle heads.

A couple grand for a set of heads that work better than the "G" option out of the box, is a better sounding alternative.

The heads have proven themselves on the dyno. That's clear. I'd like to hear from someone who has them on a "driver" and can give some info on what they are like to drive. The other main concern is reliability

RE: Latest update?

unibodyboy — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:18:36 GMT

In essence, aluminum heads for the Y block are a luxury good. Theoretically, as the economic cycle turns downward, the demand for luxury goods (aluminum heads in the case) is reduced more than the demand for other more "normal" goods. However, this is cyclical in nature, and the world keeps on spinning.

Although I would imagine John's heads aren't selling AS well as could have been expected, I would imagine that the individuals interested in the heads to begin with are still for the most part purchasing.

Additionally, although you haven't seen that much increase in demand for aftermarket Y blocks parts in your neck of the woods, you can see it all over the country. Increase in selling prices for core pieces as well as decorative items (see the edelbrock valve covers as of late) are incredible. The Y block is slowly becoming one of the hotter (no hp pun intended) motors for hot rods in front of our collective eyes.

RE: Latest update?

morgus — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:04:30 GMT

so here is what we have....the guys in the t-bird clubs don't want anything to do with 'not original' stuff.....that 'takes out' a bunch of sales.....the old guys with y-blocks don't seem to have $2000+ laying around for these heads either.......who does this leave??? rich guys with 55 fords? not too many of them around, i'll bet...and another thing...i was in the local 'classic car ' club in toledo,ohio for the last 3 years...i do add-on air cond. for older cars--(i'm a ex-mechanic) and had two complete vintage air 'kits' in garage loft--tried to sell them (half price) to anyone in the club (not just y-block people---any people (sbc,too-(chokeing sound here)--guess what--nobody wanted anything to do with adding a/c to their cars--they all 'liked them just as they were when new....and were not intrested...(and it can get pretty hot in toledo sometimes in the summer)....so who is left?? i can't see a whole bunch of drag racers popping out of the bushes...(am i wrong??) this was a great idea in 1995--maybe with the country in a kind of 'no money-out of work' thing going on now...this is hurting sales.....yes? no? somebody out there (john mummert?)...text me back and straighten me out on this......later ed

RE: Latest update?

shadowman — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:02:12 GMT

With 5/8" thick deck and 356-T6 material these heads should be more rigid than the OEM iron units. Somehow Ford managed to build 50lb cylinder heads and not put any material in the deck:crazy:. The 5/8" deck also helps prevent thermal loss that an aluminum head would have if it were cast with the same thickness as a stocker.

RE: Latest update?

Grizzly — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:08:15 GMT

Great to see photo's of the new heads. Similar combustion chamber shape to other aftermarket heads I've seen for other american iron. Better combustion chamber size, decent dia valves, plenty of "meat'"to shave and up the compression, improved ports with better flow and all within the confines of using as many existing parts as possible. Seems to answer just about all anyone would want or expect. Good work John.

The photo's (that I've seen) only show three sides of the heads! Some of the intake side would be great?

On Dyno testing this is obviously a testing ground where they can show thier worth. I for one would be interesed in seeing a milder street engine tested as well as a hotter race engine. Obviously not every application can be tested but this would give a reasonable range for customers who would be interested.

Also on reliability is a set of heads going to be tested on something that is regularly driven. Obviouly racing shows how they will perform (last) in the high temp high pressure environment that racing is, but daily driving has it's own set of extremes. Multipule warm up and cool down cycles, traffic, lugging loads I can see that these heads could be used in many applications, as many as there are Y block interest groups and be used in T birds, F100, trucks, a range of passenger cars from rods to full size cars. I'm wondering how reliability will be tested?

RE: Latest update?

Fordy Guy — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 19:32:35 GMT

Holy Moly, I can even feel the ground beginning to tremble now,but I cant' tell if it's the awesome power of the NEW Y-Block parts, or the scrub lovers starting to tremble in their boots!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS JOHN and Big Thanks for making a dream come true!

RE: Latest update?

charliemccraney — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 19:20:49 GMT

Last night I dreamed of turbos. Tonight it'll probably be aluminum heads.

RE: Latest update?

Don Woodruff — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 19:08:52 GMT

Good news I assume these may go on the engine masters engine or possibly a more conventional build.

RE: Latest update?

John Mummert — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:27:41 GMT

These 2 heads are on a big Brown truck headed for Lorena Texas

RE: Latest update?

charliemccraney — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 19:34:26 GMT

Sweet!!!

RE: Latest update?

Ivan M. Thoen — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:46:49 GMT

I spoke with Jeff at Mr. Mummert's shop today. He says a set of heads are on the way to Ted Eaton's dyno for the first run. Wow. It is really happening!

RE: Latest update?

rgrove — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 17:47:13 GMT

COME ON LOTTERY WINNINGS!!! Oh wait...i never play the lottery. Maybe its time to start!

Absolutely gorgeous!

RE: Latest update?

ScottY — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 15:06:17 GMT

"Ohh that's Beautiful Man!!!"

Yessiree John, a site indeed, i'm sure i speak for all of us in saying, "Thank You Sir, soooo much!" Can only imagine the headache/heartache, you've been through, though i do have a coupla buddies down here who put themselves through the same 'torture', so really i do know a lil of how you feel, and have felt, through all of this. But rest assured you have beaten 'Goliath' Mate, to death! (lol) Well Done!!

Not to forget you Ted, for your time in helping keep all of us nosey blokes up to date and a lil better informed and understanding of all that is involved, Thank You too!

Let the Fun Begin!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Latest update?

bird55 — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:07:13 GMT

Cool, cool, cool. thanks again, John.

RE: Latest update?

BFOOTER03 — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:28:31 GMT

Its a thing of beauty John. I'm sure you are getting very excited as we get closer to completion. Your hard work is appreciated!

RE: Latest update?

John Mummert — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:09:43 GMT

Here are some pics of the progress on machining the new Ford Y-Block aluminum heads. :)

RE: Latest update?

Glen Henderson — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:20:28 GMT

Mar 19, that is a good day! My birthday and wedding anniversary! Looking forward to some dyno numbers on the heads comparied to the best cast heads. Thank you for all your hard work and best of luck with the finished product. Got my copy of the EMC Mag today and can only imagine what Ted's engine would have done with a set of these heads.

RE: Latest update?

John Mummert — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:56:57 GMT

SOME MORE SPECS:

The valve sizes are: 1.94" intake, 1.54" exhaust. Stainless steel with chrome stems, hardened tip.

Valve length: 5.110-5.130"

Spring pressures are 110# seat, 280 @ .500" lift.

With +.050" keepers the spring pressure is 85# seat.

Single spring with damper. 1.250" diameter. Installed height; 1.750" with standard height keepers and retainers.

Steel spring cup. Steel 1 piece retainer. Hardened keepers.

Bare machined cast weight is 24.5 pounds.

Combustion chamber 60cc + -

We should receive 6 more castings March 19th.

Machine program is 99%. Just looking at various drill bits and cutters to speed up the job or leave the best finish.

RE: Latest update?

John Mummert — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:49:25 GMT

Sometimes I think that I'm designing this head, sometimes it seems to have a mind of its own. Machined head has been cut up and no real problems encountered. I am driving up to Edelbrock tomorrow to check on a few things. Will make a few minor adjustments. They have enough cores to make 8 heads. After these 8 are cast we will retrieve core boxes to make permanent changes. At that point we will start taking deposits. First come, first served. The more valves, seats, guides, retainers, springs we buy, the better price we can get. This will help final cost.

At this point it has become necessary to make new rocker stands that will be included with the heads. This must be done to allow the use of existing valve covers. Just couldn't figure out any other way to relocate the valves, straighten the ports, and make existing valve covers fit along with 1.6:1 rockers. Having the valve covers held down by rocker studs really limits what can be changed. The new stands will have the bolt holes moved to 1.5" apart instead of 1.2" as stock. This will open the possibility for higher ratio rockers in the future. Pushrods will likely be the later 8.30" length.

RE: Latest update?

aussiebill — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:47:05 GMT

Ted, couldnt agree more! i,m sure john has it all planed out, lets just let him do it!, i,m still sitting by post box waiting for my set! :P

RE: Latest update?

Ted — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:08:00 GMT

Scrub valves are actually shorter than the Y valves. In todays market, custom valves are very inexpensive when bought in quantity. Likewise, there are a multitude of other valves already being used in other applications that may or may not fit the bill. In the case of a new head design, it’s best to build or use a valve that’s best suited to the head and not the other way around. I have complete confidence in John using the best valve for the application and not just making something fit.

RE: Latest update?

Philo — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:54:04 GMT

What are the valve lengths for this new head? I think it would be a good idea to use the sbscrubby stock length for availabilty and economy if possible? Has this be considered?

RE: Latest update?

charliemccraney — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:15:56 GMT

It's all the little details. These heads and a Blue Thunder intake, both painted will make for a fine sleeper.

RE: Latest update?

Barry L — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:58:27 GMT

New head pic.....I'm posting this pic with John's permission. I visited with him and got to watch (get in his way for a few hours) while he machined for seats and guides. Also note the casting numbers, with a bit 'o paint you could fool the puriests! Thanks John ,for all your work on the Y and for letting me hang around your place. Barry L in M

RE: Latest update?

bird55 — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:01:11 GMT

Thanks for the update, John. It sounds like great progress. I know you have too much to do, but It would be interesting to me to see the cutaways, if you get a chance.

I may never own a set of these, but I'm an avid supporter of your work and the promotion of the Y. Good on you for staying after it. :)

RE: Latest update?

Don Woodruff — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:57:25 GMT

Thanks for the update John, looks very promiseing. Looks as if my engine simulation using Engine Analyser Pro and the AFR 165 sbf heads may be realistic. These simulations using a 214 in-224ex on 112 lobe center cam with about .525 lift produced in excess of 350 hp with a very mild engine.

Really looking forward for delivery of my new heads with a few clean up pointers as I know you will be busy delivering heads for a while.

RE: Latest update?

speedpro56 — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:27:48 GMT

Sounds like the winds are in our favor:D.

RE: Latest update?

charliemccraney — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:58:54 GMT

And, they should make it more competitive this year.

RE: Latest update?

mctim64 — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:42:24 GMT

[quote][b]Ted (2/16/2010)[/b][hr]John. With the Y being allowed to run alongside the roller hydraulic entries this year at the EMC competition, a Mummert headed Y would definitely be able to grab some media attention.[/quote]

This would be interesting to see! ;)

RE: Latest update?

Ted — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:31:37 GMT

John. Thanks for the update. The castings sound like you definitely have something good to work with. With the Y being allowed to run alongside the roller hydraulic entries this year at the EMC competition, a Mummert headed Y would definitely be able to grab some media attention.

RE: Latest update?

John Mummert — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:51:48 GMT

We have machined one of the heads while refining the program. No water was found, which is encouraging. I plan to cut this head up Tuesday or Wednesday to look closer. At this point final valve sizes are 1.94" intake and 1.54" exhaust. I do not expect this to change.

Unported air flow is 235 intake and 180 exhaust. We have done some porting on this head before cutting it up. Lower port tunes up to 250CFM. Exhaust port is up to 200CFM with 1-5/8" to 1-3/4" stepped 90 degree stub. The exhaust flow is very good and should help performance throughout the RPM range.

It looks like the head will be capable of 260CFM intake and 210 exhaust. This is what we expected and probably close to the limits of the original design. This should make a 500HP N/A Y-Block a reality.

More info to come.