Y-BlocksForever Forum / Y-BlocksForever! Forums 2006 / Street / The T5 is in! / Latest Posts

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 06:43:35 GMT

At the minimum:
Modified Bellhousing
New clutch disk
Throwout bearing reducer
T5 transmission
Change drive shaft length - probably shorten.
cut a hole in the floor for the shifter
Shifter boot

May need:
Diaphragm clutch
Truck/mustang hybrid throwout bearing.
Shifter and handle.
crossmember

I think that's it.

Update 05/28/09:

Depending on the application from which the transmission was taken, a different pilot bearing may be required. See the following thread.
[url=http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Topic27151-3-1.aspx]http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Topic27151-3-1.aspx[/url]

Update 12/23/09:

A more DIY approach.
[url=http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Topic36580-3-1.aspx]http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Topic36580-3-1.aspx[/url]

RE: The T5 is in!

PetesPonies — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:35:55 GMT

so do you have an summary of what is needed?

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:29:48 GMT

Here are a few more pics illustrating the difference between the height of the diaphragm plate and the long plate.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2809.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2810.jpg[/IMG]

And here are some showing Mummerts truck T5 bearing compared to the stock with the reducer sleeve installed.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2826.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2827.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2828.jpg[/IMG]

The bearings hubs are about the same height but the diaphragm plate comes out about 1/2" shorter at the figers so there is plenty of room. All of the linkage seems to work fine. I have about 50 miles on it now - been driving it every day - and it is great. I can tell the engine really likes it. So now, those of you contemplating a T5 swap should have a very good idea what will be involved. It's not as difficult as you might think and it's definitely worth the time, sweat, and money.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:56:12 GMT

Well, I got it together and took it for a spin. It's great! 1, 2, and 3 pull harder because of the torque multiplication. 4th is the same as the 3 spds 3rd. I got out on the highway for a few miles and I was only doing 2000 RPM while keeping up with everyone. I'm not sure how fast I was going. The speedo said 70 but it seems to be reading fast. However, 70 is about the right speed on the highway around here. In 3rd with the old transmission 2000rpm was about 40 mph. Now in 4th, at 2000rpm it says about 50. So I probably need to get a different driven gear.

So, if you do this conversion get some clutch kit with a diaphragm plate. If you can afford it, have your flywheel drilled for the 1986 - 1993 mustang or, even better, get one of Mummert's billet flywheels which are already drilled, so you open the door to a seemingly limitless number of aftermarket options. Also get one of Mummerts throwout bearing assemblies. It is a hub which uses a mustang bearing and allows the use of the trucks fork. And always make sure the flywheel is flat - even if it is bran new - and get it balanced - It will be worth the extra money.

I'll add some pictures and try for a more fluid and clear post later. I'm tired and I'm going to bed.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:31:44 GMT

Well, that's just one more to add to the positive things said about the Dual Friction. It's a wild looking clutch disc - for me, anyway. The only thing I don't like is they want 450 to 500 miles of in town driving for break in before full power is applied. It will be tough holding out that long!

Mines primarily a street driver so I don't think I'll break the transmission. The T5 has a pretty good aftermarket, though. If I do break it I'll probably have it upgraded by G-force or some similar company. Plus the T5 is lighter and, I hear, requires less power to drive than a TKO in stock form. I don't know how the modified versions compare. Then I won't have to go through all this fitment and installation stuff again.
I can't wait to get it on the highway to see how it does.

RE: The T5 is in!

yehaabill — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:09:13 GMT

Pat: Changing the subject, How difficult was the change over to the

Tremec transmission from the t-5? My F-100 has the hyd. clutch and

I am using Mummert's adapter.

Thx Bill

RE: The T5 is in!

suede57ford — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:42:19 GMT

You will like the Dual Friction Centerforce after it gets broke in.

I used the 10.5" 5.0 mustang application on one of Mummert's steel flywheels.

I cannot believe how tough that clutch is! I have really abused it and have a ton of street miles as well as dragstrip launches and it does not miss a beat.

The clutch worked so well I was able to break a bunch of T5's until I went to the Tremec TKO.

Powershifting into 3rd is where the T5's let go, so be gentle on the 2-3rd shift with a T5 and it should last awhile. It was knocking the teeth right of the gears.

You will love 5th gear on the highway. Mine cruizes at 2150 at exactly 70 mph with 4:11's and 30" tall rear tires.

The low first gear is a major plus driving around town as well.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:00:47 GMT

Thanks Greg! I went with 20ft/lbs. The throwout bearing should be here Thursday. Hopefully It'll be the last time I have to put the transmission up!

RE: The T5 is in!

Greg D — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:17:17 GMT

My Mustang manual states 12 - 24 ft lbs PP to Flywheel, all years - Fox body.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:55:46 GMT

I picked up a Centerforce Dual Friction. I've heard a lot of good about them. And it should be strong enough for future plans. What is the torque for the 8mm bolts that hold the Mustang PP?

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:34:51 GMT

I spoke with John. The second pattern is for the mustang 10.5" clutch. So that will make things easy. He also has an adapter for using the truck clutch fork with the mustang bearing but I'll still see what I can come up with.

RE: The T5 is in!

pegleg — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 06:43:31 GMT

Charlie,

You reminded me of something, I've got one of Mummert's wheels also. I'm using a diaphragm pressure plate with a Kevlar disc behind it. I know the diaphragm isn't supposed to be strong enough for anything serious, but it works, breaks u-joints! Anyhow you can get a diaphragm from a local driveline dealer or if that fails I'll get one fom South Bend Clutch or Fort Wayne and ship it......or try RAM, they're in NC. The real question is, is it shorter? John Mummert might have that answer too.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 06:08:08 GMT

Thanks, Ted. I remember that now. Is that the case with all diaphragm plates? My flywheel is one of the billet ones sold by Mummert and it has 2 bolt patterns. I think the other is for a diaphragm but I can't remember. I need to give him a call.

RE: The T5 is in!

Ted — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 05:51:42 GMT

[quote][b]charliemccraney (9/10/2008)[/b][hr]It just occured to me that I'm assuming the 86 - 93 Mustang Pressure plate will just bolt up to my flywheel. Anyone know if this is the case? They use the 10.4" diaphragm clutch. I'm using an 11" long clutch.[/quote]

The Mustang pressure plates typically use metric bolts of the non-shouldered variety and use three dowel pins equally spaced to maintain pressure plate alignment on the flywheel. If the pressure plate bolt holes can be made to match up with the existing threaded holes in the Y flywheel, then the holes in the pressure plate may have to be made slightly larger in which to accommodate the shouldered bolts. If only three of the holes align up, then it's easy enough to drill and tap the remaining three holes using the original three as a centering reference. I’m an old hand at redrilling flywheels for completely new pressure plate bolt patterns when the bolt holes do not line up so that’s a possibility also.

RE: The T5 is in!

pegleg — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:11:03 GMT

Charlie,

I dunno! Maybe a parts store would let you match one up to your Long PP.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:30:43 GMT

thanks, Frank.

It just occured to me that I'm assuming the 86 - 93 Mustang Pressure plate will just bolt up to my flywheel. Anyone know if this is the case? They use the 10.4" diaphragm clutch. I'm using an 11" long clutch.

RE: The T5 is in!

pegleg — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:34:41 GMT

or 1045, either.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:11:10 GMT

That's an idea. Sticking with the truck pressure plate, there aren't many options but a thinner bearing may be possible. Timken has catalogs online. I'll browse those to see if a thinner bearing for some other clutch application will work.
Does anyone have access to a T5 mustang clutch and can get some measurements, possibly as installed? I think diaphragm plates are thinner than the long plates but I'll still have to deal with fitting a smaller diameter throwout bearing. The throwout bearing used in mustangs looks similar to the truck bearing - just shorter. Does anyone have one and can measure the clutch fork groove diameter and width? Maybe it will work with my fork.

Edit: Well, I've looked through the catalog. The bearings that have a bore diameter that will work vary in thickness by a few 100ths which I do not think will be enough. What grade steel do you all think is suitable for the bearing hub? I can pick up 1018, 1117, 12L14, 1215, 1045, and 1144 locally. Chrome-moly is also available but I don't think it is necessary. I'm thinking about going with 1144.

RE: The T5 is in!

pegleg — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:38:26 GMT

Charlie,

Is it possible another throwout bearing or pressure plate would be shorter?

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:33:06 GMT

I went to my friends shop and had the reducer sleeve modified. Now the fingers clear the sleeve and there is no more noise!

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2798.jpg[/IMG]

However, I've discovered another problem. The throwout bearing hub is too wide and has no play between the fingers of the pressure plate and the transmission. So the clutch slips. I don't know if this is the case with every T5 or just the Ford Racing T5. I had noticed that getting the transmission the last 1/16" was difficult. I just did not notice why until today.

Anyhow, after seeing this I figured it would slip but I had to take it for a drive around the block. Even with the clutch slipping it felt awesome! I think, once I have it all figured out, it will be about the same magnitude as the new engine last year!

So the next step is to find out how much shorter the bearing hub has to be and, probably, to have a hub made. I don't think the stock hub could be reliably made shorter. Is there a minimum or maximum freeplay I should aim for. I think 1/8" shorter will do the trick.

I did get a good video for youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-N1uP7m3b4 And I'm working on the Y-block Shootout videos. I have 4 up so far.

RE: The T5 is in!

pegleg — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:53:30 GMT

Like anybody in this group is Normal? :w00t:

The truck is really neat, the tubo setup is going to be awesome when they get it dialed

RE: The T5 is in!

Ted — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 05:39:31 GMT

[quote][b]charliemccraney (9/8/2008)[/b][hr]I did not see that. I didn't know it had a 5 speed. Too busy looking at the turbo! Did anyone take a picture?[/quote]

You gotta love Bill and Reed’s sense of humor. Shifter is made out of piece of rebar with a bicycle handlebar grip which definitely keeps with the ‘hillbilly’ theme of the truck. For those of you that haven’t seen it, the turbo charger and associated piping under the hood is a work of art and runs good too. Here’s pics of both.

RE: The T5 is in!

Brian_B — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:01:07 GMT

pic request sent...if you have time. ;)

RE: The T5 is in!

unibodyboy — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:07:34 GMT

I made my own shifter out of stainless, bent it and polished it. It was a pain, but well worth it. I've got pictures of the finished product/T5 junk, but I don't even want to try to upload them here. If you want them, email me at drummerboy57@hotmail.com, and I will send them. Charlie, sent you back an email. Sorry for the delay.

Greg

RE: The T5 is in!

Greg D — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:31:12 GMT

Another way around the shifter issue is to change the tailshaft housing to one from a S-10. It's stock shifter isn't a bad in one of our trucks either. I will use an after market short throw with the S-10 tailshaft housing and modify my stock shifter handle to bolt to the shifter.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:16:05 GMT

I did not see that. I didn't know it had a 5 speed. Too busy looking at the turbo! Did anyone take a picture?

RE: The T5 is in!

Ted — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:22:05 GMT

Charley. Did you see the shifter handle on the five speed in Bill Patridge’s ’60 truck? Was homemade and definitely kept to the external appearance theme of the truck.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:14:41 GMT

You will need a shift handle bent in such a way that it misses the seat. I have a feeling it is something that will have to be made but shouldn't be too difficult. A straight shift handle will not allow 2nd, 4th, and reverse with the bench seat.

RE: The T5 is in!

Brian_B — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:44:22 GMT

Great thread. Thanks for taking pics and posting as you go. You make it look easy.

That would be a good swap for a lot of us that drive these old trucks.

Will that shifter clear the bench seat? That is one of the problems I have heard rumors about with the t5 swap.

A couple of extra gears would help highway driving. I am wound out pretty good at 65 in mine.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:07:11 GMT

I pulled the transmission today. As I suspected, the throwout bearing reducer sleeve is the problem. It hits the fingers of the pressure plate after some point of the travel. Fortunately no damage has been done. You can see where the conatact has been made on the upper 3/4 of the flange.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2779.jpg[/IMG]

I'm not sure if this would have been an issue with an original style plate. I'm calling original the ones which have a screw in each of the 3 fingers which is adjusted and welded. The plate I'm using has no screws. I'm not sure, but I also suspect that the wear pattern of the 3 fingers will be closer to center on the bearing surface with an original pressure plate. I have both plate styles and I'll try to remember to take a picture. I also have my old bearing somewhere. That will help confirm my theory.

I'm going to try to have my friend remove the flange on his lathe and tig weld the sleeve into the bearing hub tomorrow. I've also cad modelled the hub for the stock 1 3/8 input transmission with stock bearing, and T5 using the stock bearing. I will also design one for the T5 and and Mustang bearing ,which will work with the truck clutch fork, when I get a hold of a Mustang bearing. This way sleeves won't have to be dealt with and Mustang clutches will be easy to use.

RE: The T5 is in!

BFOOTER03 — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 10:45:11 GMT

Charlie Great thread!! Very detailed and I'm sure many will find it helpful in the future. I know I will when I start my install this winter. Thanks again

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:54:48 GMT

Holes have to be marked on the shifter boot for the bezel screws. The only way I could find to hold it in place in order to mark the holes is to use some masking tape. It worked like a charm. I marked the centers with a scribe. The screws do the rest. Once the boot is installed, the excess that you see on the sides is trimmed with a razor.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2617.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2618.jpg[/IMG]

I then made a rubber gasket for the adapter plate. For this I just placed the bezel on a sheet of rubber and carefully cut out the shape with a razor. I marked the centers with the scribe and cut out the holes with a hollow punch. A leather punch will probably be easier but I don't have one. Hopefully this will be enough to seal the plate to the floor. I used 1/32" thick High-Strength Multipurpose Neoprene Rubber. It is oil resistant, abrasion resistant, impact resistant, weather resistant, and flame resistant. All sound great for use in a car!

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2631.jpg[/IMG]

And here it is all together!

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2724.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2726.jpg[/IMG]

I forgot to take a picture of the finished adapter plate. I'm sure you can guess by now that I painted it black. Note the completed floor pan! The old speedo cable and drive gear seem to bolt right in and seems to be real close to it's original location. I'll see how that works once I am able to drive it.

Now I just have to figure out what's going on with the clutch. I'm sure I'll have more to post about that. But this should pretty well cover the installation of a T5 in a 61 F100 and is probably mostly the same for the other years.

RE: The T5 is in!

Greg D — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:18:50 GMT

Looks great, can't wait til I do mine!

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 18:40:06 GMT

This weekend I completed the Crossmember install.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2536a.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2536b.jpg[/IMG]

And started work on the shifter boot. I got a Lokar unit that should look quite nice once installed.

A friend helped with this one. I had him mark the holes, trying to keep the pattern square with the bead in the floor pan. Note that there is not enough room for the front two holes. With this particular shift boot, it cannot be avoided. The hole in the floor is barely large enough to get the shifter bolted to the transmission.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2590.jpg[/IMG]

To overcome this I had him make an adapter of sorts out of 16 gauge steel. This will be held to the floor with all but the front 2 bolts. This will allow me to completely fasten the bezel to the floor. I'll make a rubber gasket to seal this to the floor.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2592.jpg[/IMG]

I decided to cut out the circle rather than making it exactly like the bezel for two reasons. It should add a significant amount of rigidity to the front and hopefully make a good seal with the gasket. It will also keep more road crud out.

It's starting to look Good! I should have the shift boot completed this week.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2594.jpg[/IMG]

Here are a few pics with the bench seat in place.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2596.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2597.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2600.jpg[/IMG]

It will require a shifter with an immediate bend forward. It is not as far back as I had expected. I think I'll need something that bends a little toward the driverside.

I try to CAD model anything I can get the appropriate measurements for. So if anyone needs patterns I may be able to help. Many of these are one off sorts of things that may not apply to every truck.

RE: The T5 is in!

BFOOTER03 — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:22:44 GMT

Great post Charlie! Really interested in the bench seat picture and how the shifter fits. I've been considering a T5 but have reversations about the shifter location. Thanks

RE: The T5 is in!

Unibodyguy — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 06:52:58 GMT

Charlie,

make sure and save the patterns/templates that you made up. I think there would defiently be a "market" for those down the road for other people doing the same thing. I for one would be interested once I get a little more $$$ saved up. That is an excellent job your doing on it, very very professional work.

Michael

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 05:32:04 GMT

Here are a few pics of the crossmember.

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2477.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2491.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2495.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2499.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2502.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/cmccraney/Pictures%20for%20Forums/m_IMG_2512.jpg[/IMG]

It's not the most elegant. I have to do a little bit of grinding to get it to fit a little easier between the brackets. I can't offer much tech on the crossmember because, frankly, I don't know what I'm doing. This is my first crossmember so it is a learning experience. I am glad to say that my welds are getting better! Still not really nice to look at, though.

One other thing I did before torquing the rear motor mounts is centered the transmission between the frame rails. There is some casting flash that runs down the center of the transmission. I used that flash, at the output shaft to get it all centered.

RE: The T5 is in!

bird55 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:38:33 GMT

looks nice, charlie. you're doing a good job.

RE: The T5 is in!

unibodyboy — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:11:06 GMT

Yeah, the length adds quite a bit of weight. I had a really nice one piece 4 inch aluminum shaft made because of that reason. Are you going to eventually make a crossmember for the tranny? They say it's not necessary, but I would venture in high performance applications some kind of floating member would be beneficial.

RE: The T5 is in!

charliemccraney — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:07:19 GMT

I saw on the UPS tracking that it will be 5lbs lighter! Not that I would be able to tell the difference. I think they cut about 10" off - the transmission is about 10" longer. They said that the old shaft, at about 68" long, had a maximum safe RPM of about 4500. This one should be well into the mid 6k's. That will be good because 4500rpm is right at about 90mph in 3rd - or now 4th.